Just a formality..... im 27, lifting for years...im under 200 lbs, ive used Ph's before (m1t, 4-ad/1-ad, Mdrol)

Goal: Increase size, strength 10-15 lbs with minimal bloat.

anyway, would 250mg/1ml of sustanon a week be enough for strength/size gains...
Or is that too low a dose?

ive never rodded up b4, so this is all new to me. only orals in my past.

anyway, what would be a good plan with this? Ive layed out a few scenarios here.....

1) a 3-4 week oral PH cycle prior to the sustanon?

or

2) No ph cycle...Just A good complimentary compound to stack with the sustanon and run for several months.

or

3) an oral cycle prior to the sust...and then stack the sust with another compound, run for several months.

Also, which compound would be best to run with the sustanon? Anadrol? anavar? primo? deca?

What i have on hand as far as orals are: mdrol, Pplex, Hdrol, M1t plex...I can get 1ad/4 diol if need be.

i have plenty of time to plan this...Money is not the biggest obstacle if you know what im saying....My biggest obstacle is availability of compounds.

so im open to options, ideas, whatever.

Anyway, i appreciate the feedback (if any)
peace.

Too low of a dosage.

Shot it ALTEAST 2x a week. (id do 3 a week tho its alot but youll get enough out of the short esters in it too take advantage of them)

Like a M/W/F Pin.

Or go with the classic M/T pin (2x a week)

Also you can stack do it the 1st 3 weeks.

Weeks 1-10 500mg sust (or 750mg)
weeks 1-3 - Mdrol
then maybe weeks 7-10 - go with some Epistane.
Week 11-15 - PCT

Just my .02c

Thanks - J

You could ultimately choose whatever PHs you want to use with real gear. I don't see the point when real stuff is about the same price unless you already have it on hand. I would honestly choose a different compound that sust for your first go with pinning. I would use test e or test c, 500mg a week over 2 shots. Its simple and you won't have such strong hormone fluctuations.

Im 20 years old and this was my first cycle. ANways iwas 5'9 167 pounds at 5-6% bf and did a Sus only cycle pinning once a week at 300 mgs a week, ate like crazy and im on my last week of a 8 week cycle and looks like im going to end up being 182 around 7% bf. Gained pretty good strenght gains on all lifts. But anyways if its your first cycle i wouldnt do any crazy stack but if i could do it over i would of liked to stack with deca. But 15 pounds on a sus only cycle is not to bad imo.

You look like 10% body fat

RIght now because i have water weight

if youre dead set on sust than i would run 400-500mg per week. because of the short esters that are in sust i would pin eod or e3d, somethin like that.
but as a first cycle i like to recommend test e for 12 weeks 500mg. thats what i ran and i loved it. yes it bloats more but you can control that with adex/letro. also you only have to pin 2x per week, good for a first cycle.
you kickstart it with whatever you want, doesnt really matter. i wouldnt run anything too harsh though like m1t.
just my 2ml, good luck bro

dont do sustanon, you will have to shoot it EoD due to the propionate half life in the blend. Use superdrol or whatever you prefer the first 3 or 4 weeks and test enanthate like previously said for 10-12 weeks at 400-500mg. 225 isn't enough imo, i wouldnt even bother. If you are going to shut down your HPTA and testis, make it worth your time bro.

I agree with Vapor and Rob...

However i used Andropen for my 1st inject cycle of 6 weeks and i loved it. i pinned like every 4 days .. and it wokred out great ... untill i broke out in bad acne and had to stop because i parents kept asking if i was taking roids... however i did gain alot in that time


Fuck it you only live once ... pin that shitt EOD

i agree with typeblob and gayforguys. test e is cheap too

i was once a fan of heavy cycles and "kickstarting" with orals and all that jazz... once you learn wtf you're doing you realize that low doses can provide plenty of growth potential with minimal side effects.

kickstarting only jacks up SHBG for the duration of the cycle... if you are really looking to gain the most outta the cycle you wouldn't kickstart, or frontload or any of that bs that people spout off... you'd save the orals for the end of the cycle when you can actually use the anabolic boost to pack on more LB's when SHBG has topped out and gains are slowing down.


you'll see crazy cycles with crazy doses with 5 differnet compounds b/c people don't know what they're doing. once you get a firm understanding of these compounds and how they act in the body you'll probably have a different perspecitve on what is an "adequate" dose...

the more you know, the more you grow.

my 2cc, take it or leave it... peace

So SDF your saying now that im done with my sus cycle i should maybe finish up with mdrol to gain a few more pounds

hey,

I wanna thank you guys for the feedback. i really appreciate it. I really thought the sust was the way to go...just for the lack of bloat qualities.....but the fact its a short lived ester seems shitty. Pinning 3 times a week will suck ass.

As far as the PH frontload...maybe i wont even. You guys are right, i should get a feel for the test.

ok, so im convinced now Test-E solo in the 250-500mg/week range looks way better, even if it bloats. (i have a question regarding that bloat though)

So as far as bloat and Gyno concerns...Could/should i run a low dose of Nolva for 10 weeks? (say 10-20 mgs)i know that would really reduce the Gyno risk...but what about bloating as well? would it help? if not, what compound would? Im dreading a puffy moon face. Thats Not a good look for me.

ALSO.......if im running Nolva for 10 weeks with the Test, how long would i use nolva for PCT? Would my PCT be shorter?

I know Clomid is a must for a cycle that long, i'll incorporate that into pct.
And HCG the week or so before the cycle ends.....(hopefully i can get HCG, godwilling)

alright, Im gonna look up/serach some good PCT's and see if the PCT length differs if you're using Nolva on cycle. I appreciate all the feedback, you guys really helped...thanks a lot.

Jayv24,

i wouldn't run nolva the whole cycle... just have some on hand incase you notice the nips getting tender/sore. I'd also recommend having some letrozole or arimidex on hand for the same reason. IF during the cycle you notice that bloat is starting to bother you, a couple days of letro or arimidex should be enough to shed the majority of it. the nolva would suffice but wouldn't be as potent at getting rid of the bloat as letro or arimidex.

for PCT on test only, clomid isn't a must. nolva will work just fine on it's own. probably run 40mg for 2wks and 20mg for a week or so... you could even then do 10mg until you "feel" like your 100% back producing test on your own. it's not gonna hurt to run nolva a little longer than you need. personally i'd rather run my PCT longer than i needed to rather than not long enough. if you're really concerned about PCT, nolva + arimidex will hit everything you need to get LH and FSH back to full strenght.

i'd pass on the HCG (i've never been a fan of it after doing some research on it), highly doubt you'd need it for this cycle anyways.

Thanks bro. Sounds good! I'll look into arimidex.

Glad to see the HCG isnt a must...i wasnt sure if i was gonna be able to score some, this should make it easier.

i should be ready for a cycle by late Jan/early Feb. I'll get a complete blood work done mid jan, if all is well i'll be good to go. i cant freakin wait...

looks good bro, i think i will be starting my next aas cycle around the same time as you.

i think half the board is running a cycle then