Kaizen Ephedrine 60 vs. VasoPro ...?!

Bulk Nutrition Forums > Supplements

Posted by: tmhpoole Sep 2 2004, 07:55 PM

A few years ago, I started taking Kaizen Ephedrine 60 ephedra capsules (first week at 1 capsule ephedra & 200 mg caffeine dose @ 3 doses per day, then 2 weeks of 2 capsules ephedra & 200 mg caffeine @ 2 doses per day....then a week off & restart cycle).

Anyway, I experienced amazingly rapid fat loss. I was motivated to run a lot more...tone & tighten...strength train...eat a lot less...way more energy through the day: hell, I felt pretty intense...I got down to about 14% bodyfat (from about 25%) in a 2 months ...not too shabby for a full-time working mother of 3 young kids.

My question to anyone who cares to listen, is why don't I get the same effect now that I take 25 mg of Vasopro & 200 mg of caffeine a dose at 3 doses per day. No other factors in my life have changed drastically... was I dosing really high on the Kaizen Ephedrine 60? ... I have a pretty good understanding of the pharmacology of ephedrine and how fat loss, in general, works...so feel free to get as technical as you need ...

Vasopro is so CHEAP...I want to keep using it!! HELP!

Posted by: lite12 Sep 2 2004, 10:25 PM

Kaizen Ephedrine 60 is ephedra extract not Ephedrine HCL.

If it is standardized at 60mg of Ephedrine per capsule, then you would be taking between 180-240mg of Ephedrine a day depending on which part of the cycle you are at. This is in addition to much smaller amounts of other Ephedrine-related alkaloids that are probably in there as well.

Those doses are ludicrously high. If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if you had developed a severe tolerance to it. In comparisson, three Vasopro tablets would yield 75mg of Ephedrine HCL.

-Lite

Posted by: tmhpoole Sep 3 2004, 05:20 PM

Well... I don' think Kaizen's Ephedrine 60 means that it contains 60 mg of ephedrine alkaloids...actually, here is the verbage from Kaizen:

"The natural Ephedrine 60 is similar in strength to 25 Mg of the synthetic Ephedrine HCL. Dosage Recommendation: Take 1 capsule 30 - 45 minutes before your workout, or as directed by your qualified health consultant. For a desired thermogenic (fat burning) effect, take one capsule two or three times per day."

I suppose taking two Kaizen 60 capsules would be similar to taking 2 Vasopro tablets (which I have never done... only 1.5 Vasopro tablets max).

Is there truly a lack of "buzz-rush" with the Ephedrine HCL ... and does the natural ephedra give the user more of a "high"? Does anyone have a similar experience with this after switching to Ephed. HCL since natural ephedra as a fat loss agent has been banned by the FDA?

Posted by: cobra1414 Sep 3 2004, 06:17 PM

I get the same feeling off hcl that I do off alkaloids.

Posted by: lite12 Sep 3 2004, 06:55 PM

QUOTE

Well... I don' think Kaizen's Ephedrine 60 means that it contains 60 mg of ephedrine alkaloids...actually, here is the verbage from Kaizen:

That's possible, but ephedra products are typically standardized at 6% Ephedrine. 60mg of ephedra extract per capsule is equivilant to 3.6mg of Ephedrine, which means you would be ingesting between 10.8-14.4mg in a day, which is unlikely given that you were benifiting from it's fat burning properties and CNS stimulus.

If you look on the nutritional facts label, it says 60mg standardized for Ephedrine, which I take to mean 60mg of the total capsule contents is Ephedrine.

Both the size of the capsules (they appear much larger then 60mg) and your reactions to the different brands indicate that Kaizen 60 probably contains 1g caps standardized at 6%. At the very least, this would explain your issues with Vasopro.

QUOTE

Is there truly a lack of "buzz-rush" with the Ephedrine HCL ... and does the natural ephedra give the user more of a "high"? Does anyone have a similar experience with this after switching to Ephed. HCL since natural ephedra as a fat loss agent has been banned by the FDA?

I find that products containing Ephedrine HCL produce more CNS stimulus, which is where the rush comes from.

-Lite

Posted by: tmhpoole Sep 4 2004, 11:27 AM

Hmmm.... thanks for breaking it down into common denominators. I can see that after comparing "apples to apples" there may have been another part of the equation that I was doing last time, but not this time.

I was also taking Evening Primrose Oil for about 3 weeks during my first experience with taking Kaizen's ephedra ...could that have pushed the fat loss effects even further? But it probably wouldn't have an effect on my motivation levels...hmmm...

I think I was also taking Universal Nutrition's "Women's Fitness Pak" vitamins (I'm a girl, 'member?

). I think they have Cayenne & a few other things which could potentiate fat loss, but I'm not sure I should check it out....

Maybe I should just try to replicate all of my supplementation habits when I was taking Kaizen's ephedra.... it could have just been the total effect of the entire mix that I was experiencing...

I don't seem to see Universal Nutrition's Women's Fitness Pak vitamins here at BulkNutrition's website...

I have managed to keep up the fitness & dietary habits that I adopted two years ago (I quit smoking then). I have still kept the weight off, but I want to get that lean and slightly striated muscular look that I had 2 years back.

-tmhpoole

Posted by: lite12 Sep 4 2004, 01:24 PM

I don't think the Primrose oil would affect Ephedrine in either direction, but I recommend a multivitamin; being low on calcium may prevent the nerves from fully recuperating. You could gradually increase your dose of Vasopro until the CNS stimulation returns, but I don't recommend making any large jumps in dosage or exceeding 100mg.

-Lite

Posted by: tmhpoole Sep 4 2004, 02:27 PM

Thanks! Yeah...actually the Evening Primrose Oil is sorta expensive anyway. ...And the vitamin pak has an essential oil capsule in there already.

I just found my trusty pill cutter, and see if I can't gradually increase to 43.75 mg of ephedrine HCL a dose (1.75 pills) w/ 200 mg. Maybe just do this dose in the morning then a 25 mg vasopro w/ 200mg caffeine dose in the early afternoon.

Approximately 70mg of ephedrine HCL total per day.

I ordered another box of vitamins, too ... you're right, they're a good idea, anyway.

Thanks again!
-tmhpoole