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 | QUOTE (powergrudge @ Apr 14 2004, 05:02 PM) | | QUOTE (shpongled @ Mar 11 2004, 02:16 PM) | | QUOTE (Kaner @ Mar 11 2004, 09:36 AM) | | Negative reaction with Yohimbine?... |
Check out my yohimbine article. Last paragraph I believe. A lot of people have contested me on this but I stand by it. But people should do whatever they think will work best. |
shpongled, i understand your reasoning behind avoiding E and Y together, but if each ingredient were kept to a certain amount would it still be a problem? the reason i ask is that i like the idea of stacking E-HCL with most of the ingredients in lipo-6 ef, but i'm unsure of whether 3-9mg of Y would be enough to have a negative effect when stacked with 75mg of E (of course it would be spread out over 3 doses.) would it just be better to find all of the ingredients from lipo-6 in other forms/products? |
Well it is all unknown, but I wouldn't think 3-9 mg would be that big of a deal, especially if you are in good health, in which case you have less to worry about in terms of safety. I still think just take ephedrine and caffeine pills would be cheaper and probably just as or almost as effective though. Lipo 6 has synephrine, and trying to determine how important of an ingredient that is is a matter of guesswork, so I can't really say how big of a difference there would be. David Tolson
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prematurely bitter
Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 95
Member No.: 17629
Joined: 10-February 04
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| QUOTE (shpongled @ Apr 16 2004, 12:19 AM) | | QUOTE (powergrudge @ Apr 14 2004, 05:02 PM) | | QUOTE (shpongled @ Mar 11 2004, 02:16 PM) | | QUOTE (Kaner @ Mar 11 2004, 09:36 AM) | | Negative reaction with Yohimbine?... |
Check out my yohimbine article. Last paragraph I believe. A lot of people have contested me on this but I stand by it. But people should do whatever they think will work best. |
shpongled, i understand your reasoning behind avoiding E and Y together, but if each ingredient were kept to a certain amount would it still be a problem? the reason i ask is that i like the idea of stacking E-HCL with most of the ingredients in lipo-6 ef, but i'm unsure of whether 3-9mg of Y would be enough to have a negative effect when stacked with 75mg of E (of course it would be spread out over 3 doses.) would it just be better to find all of the ingredients from lipo-6 in other forms/products? |
Well it is all unknown, but I wouldn't think 3-9 mg would be that big of a deal, especially if you are in good health, in which case you have less to worry about in terms of safety. I still think just take ephedrine and caffeine pills would be cheaper and probably just as or almost as effective though. Lipo 6 has synephrine, and trying to determine how important of an ingredient that is is a matter of guesswork, so I can't really say how big of a difference there would be. |
What would you think of this stack (in terms of effectiveness/safety) if one wanted to replace the yohimbine with ephedrine: Ephedrine HCL: 25mg x 3 doses Caffeine: 200mg x 3 doses Choline: 500mg x 3 doses Lecithin: 500mg x 3 doses L-carnitine: 550mg x 3 doses Forskolin: 40mg x 2 doses Guggulsterones: 30mg x 3 doses Synephrine: 10mg x 2 doses EGCG: 120mg x 2 doses Vasopro Ephedrine HCL: 3 tabs Prolab Caffeine: 3 tabs Syntrax MM4: 4 caps Syntrax Guggulbolic Extreme: 3 caps Prolab Cuts 2: 6 tablets It's essentially the same stack that you originally proposed, except for the absence of Bioperine and replacing the Y with E. Some ingredients are increased a bit and others are decreased, but this could be made up for by increasing the MM4 dosage to 6 caps daily. Do you see any flaws--other than the fact that it's probably even more expensive than the original stack?
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| QUOTE (powergrudge @ Apr 16 2004, 02:11 AM) | Ephedrine HCL: 25mg x 3 doses
Caffeine: 200mg x 3 doses
Choline: 500mg x 3 doses
Lecithin: 500mg x 3 doses
L-carnitine: 550mg x 3 doses
Forskolin: 40mg x 2 doses
Guggulsterones: 30mg x 3 doses
Synephrine: 10mg x 2 doses
EGCG: 120mg x 2 doses
Vasopro Ephedrine HCL: 3 tabs
Prolab Caffeine: 3 tabs
Syntrax MM4: 4 caps
Syntrax Guggulbolic Extreme: 3 caps
Prolab Cuts 2: 6 tablets
It's essentially the same stack that you originally proposed, except for the absence of Bioperine and replacing the Y with E. Some ingredients are increased a bit and others are decreased, but this could be made up for by increasing the MM4 dosage to 6 caps daily. Do you see any flaws--other than the fact that it's probably even more expensive than the original stack? |
No, that definitely looks good, assuming you aren't concerned with the high price. Does Syntrax still make MM4?
David Tolson
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No, you can take them together, I would start with a low dose of Lipo 6 EF and build up though, to give your body a chance to build up tolerance to the stimulants
David Tolson
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| QUOTE (steph it @ Apr 17 2004, 11:10 PM) | | im new to this and just purchased some vasopro, and was wondering if it is necessary to combine it with additional supplements in order to get a desired effect of weight loss or is it effective by itself? if it needs to be combined with other supplements are caffeine pills enough? |
Vasopro and caffeine is very effective as is. The other stuff will give you some extra help but you should get good results with just ephedrine and caffeine still. David Tolson
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BTW seems like everyone is missing a great product for leaning out that doesn't give you the jitters and keep you up at night...6-oxo . I've used it in a fat loss regimen at 300mg's day (all at once pre-bed) for 60 days and it worked awesome. Of course with that sort of "longer-term" estrogen suppression you really want to have a clean diet and do plenty of cardio so that any sort of negative changes in your blood lipid (cholesterol) levels will not cause any significant health risks. However if you don't want to go near any sort of ph/ps/anti-estrogen maybe just try one of those phyto-green products that's out there. There are a few with "cleansing" ingredients which are basically diuretics that will help jump start your diet by helping you shed a little excess water. Just a few q's to keep the thread going: Has anyone tried using formestane as a stand alone? Do any of you find that a tribulus / "natural test booster" doesn't really do much else than lean you out?
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prematurely bitter
Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 95
Member No.: 17629
Joined: 10-February 04
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| QUOTE (Big Red Machine @ Apr 18 2004, 02:28 PM) | Has anyone tried using formestane as a stand alone?
Do any of you find that a tribulus / "natural test booster" doesn't really do much else than lean you out?
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I've used formestane in between cycles, but that was after sustaining a little test suppression. I don't think anyone will reap any of the benefits of a tribulus product if their natural testosterone levels are all ready pretty peaked. I believe that test levels start to take a significant drop as a man approaches 30 and if tribulus is used before this (especially before 25) the effects such as decreased fat mass and increased muscle mass probably won't be as pronounced.
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| QUOTE (Big Red Machine @ Apr 18 2004, 11:28 AM) | BTW seems like everyone is missing a great product for leaning out that doesn't give you the jitters and keep you up at night...6-oxo . I've used it in a fat loss regimen at 300mg's day (all at once pre-bed) for 60 days and it worked awesome. Of course with that sort of "longer-term" estrogen suppression you really want to have a clean diet and do plenty of cardio so that any sort of negative changes in your blood lipid (cholesterol) levels will not cause any significant health risks. However if you don't want to go near any sort of ph/ps/anti-estrogen maybe just try one of those phyto-green products that's out there. There are a few with "cleansing" ingredients which are basically diuretics that will help jump start your diet by helping you shed a little excess water.
Just a few q's to keep the thread going:
Has anyone tried using formestane as a stand alone?
Do any of you find that a tribulus / "natural test booster" doesn't really do much else than lean you out? |
Yeah, only real problems with 6-OXO are price and acne (which keeps me from using it). I still wouldn't use it year-round though, probably take a month or two off here and there. PA claims it shouldn't effect cholesterol and such much because it only has a small impact on estrogen levels.
David Tolson
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prematurely bitter
Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 95
Member No.: 17629
Joined: 10-February 04
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| QUOTE (Skate @ Apr 30 2004, 01:20 PM) | | QUOTE (Melanson @ Apr 30 2004, 12:23 PM) | | what would be a good dossage of hydroxycut. if your only around 150-160 for max weight? and does hydroxycut work good enough? b/c i just wanna lose a little bit of fat so i can get ripped a bit. |
IMO...hydroxycut isn't worth a piss. I've taken it before and it didn't do jack. I'd say go with a E/C stack and throw some HIIT cardio into your program (assuming you follow a good diet). Besides E/C is a helluva lot cheaper than hydro.
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I agree. Unless your using the original, ephedra-containing formula of Hydroxycut, then the only real result will be a jitter-buzz from all the caffeine. So to answer your question: a good dosage would be 0 tabs 0 times a day. Stick with ephedrine hcl and caffeine, or if you want to step it up a bit, try using the stack that Shpongled outlined at the beginning of this thread.
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I was wondering what you think of replacing the Lipo6 with Meltdown z-14 from VPX or CLENbutical from Nutrabolics?? I just saw the Meltdown and it looks pretty good, but let me know what you think.. Also would it be worth it to use some Ab-solved with this stack or am I just wasting $$
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Subject to change
Group: Advanced Members
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| QUOTE (Melanson @ May 4 2004, 10:28 PM) | | Xenedrine efx, i have got some question son this supplement is this one good? |
I don't think the Xene is any good either, but I have known a few girls that took it and had some good results with it (but I think that was back when it had the ephedra in it). I took the original w/ ephedra in it and it still didn't do anything for me, so personally I can't imagine the one w/o ephedra would be any good either. Lots of people on the forum have said good things about Lipo 6, and Avant is coming out with H.E.A.T sometime in the near future which is supposed to be really good. Sesathin is also supposed to be great, though BN doesn't have it in stock yet  (bummer!!!) To me "fat loss" supps are like anti-depressants. What will work for some people will have no effect on others. It's hit & miss a lot of the time. Like I said earlier, if you want a cheap but effective stack, go with E/C and add some other supps in if you want.
Let us begin a revolution. I herebye place Skate at the helm. HARRR what be yer orders Captain?! - u.w.f.f. You hate us 'cause we'll never go away
And like some sort of fungus we're growing everyday
And our knuckles aren't dragging so I guess that leaves to say
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Watch as I build my empire, Watch as I rise and fall, Watch as I fight all alone.www.Project86.com
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| QUOTE (Bigg E @ May 5 2004, 01:46 PM) | | I was wondering what you think of replacing the Lipo6 with Meltdown z-14 from VPX or CLENbutical from Nutrabolics?? I just saw the Meltdown and it looks pretty good, but let me know what you think.. Also would it be worth it to use some Ab-solved with this stack or am I just wasting $$ |
that Meltdown looks REAL interesting. It has the synephrine (in a freakin huge dose i might add, you'd get 95mg a day!), caffeine and Forskolli that you'd find in Lipo-6, but also has Hordenine, Evodiamine and Tyramine that you'd find in the upcoming HEAT from avant. It however has no Yohimbine that both products have in common. Wow, looks great, like stacking Lipo-6 EF and HEAT to some extent. Any thoughts on this, anyone try Meltdown yet? -vasu
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Best Fat Loss Stack
